Red Hat, oops, I mean Fedora still sucks...
As you well know, from time to time I post my experiences with different distro installs and testing. I tried Redhat 9. 0 a long time ago and had nvidia and rpm problems. I just tried Fedora Core 3 the other day and nothing has changed.
As you well know, from time to time I post my experiences with different distro installs and testing. I tried Redhat 9.0 a long time ago and had nvidia and rpm problems. I just tried Fedora Core 3 the other day and nothing has changed. No, wait, I actually made it to the desktop this time without swapping video cards. Of course that was after the first install attempt froze because of samba, I had to start the install again and uncheck anything samba and voila, installation continued. Gnome sucks (except speed wise, I found it faster than KDE), plain and simple, too simple actually. Where is all the settings? Where is the windohs partition? I could 'see' windohs from Suse. I don't dare try a different desktop not 'native' to the distro. I have enough problems with the default desktop. So I am sittin' at the desktop thinkin' the picture is off center because the nvidia driver is not installed, down that dark, bumpy road I go. Fedora offers NO NVIDIA DRIVER, why? Suse makes you click yes to the user agreement, why can't Fedora do the same (I hate to say this but Billy G. is right about distros not taking heat for copyright infringement, blah blah blah)?. Fedora, legally, is a 'ghost' so they can't do the same as Suse, but wait a minute, I saw nvidia drivers in the Debian apt archives and Debian is a 'ghost' too. Did I mention Fedora sucks? Red Hat/Fedora is way over rated. So I go get the latest nvidia driver, and of course there is some, uh, lots of dependancy problems and manual file configuration JUST LIKE OLD WINDOHS! After screwing around for an hour, I can't get to the desktop anymore, JUST LIKE MY FIRST 'RED HAT' EXPERIENCE. So I deleted the partition to make room for Debian. I hear Debian has excellent package management, not to mention lots of 'em (packages). What newbies really need is a 'Suse like' distro with a GUI apt-get. RPM REALLY STANDS FOR RETARDED PACKAGE MANAGEMENT! Good thing I switched to cdrw's for iso burning, I got tired of throwing money in the garbage! Debian is 9 disks, thats right, you are not going blind, 9 disks. I will be trying Debian 3.0 r3 and installing lots of the 'newer' unstable stuff. By the way people, DON'T WAST YOUR TIME WITH THE DEBIAN 'NET INSTALL' CD IF YOU HAVE A DSL/PPPoe CONNECTION. PPPoe is not supported, it wanted me to use my modem (which I use for faxing only) or a 'cable' connection. Can you imagine installing a couple of GBs of Linux from the internet with a 56k modem? MY LORD, get real!
P.S. I am not sure it I posted my Mandrake 10.0 experience. It was a little better than Fedora but it is still based on the Red Hat/rpm model which I am starting to despise. I didn't like the corporate money grab attempts from the website. It wasn't that great that I would pay for support or anything else from them. Overall, I thought Mandrake 10.0 was ugly and confusing. I don't know why it is so popular. So far Suse is winning my 'desktop' but I find it lacking in cutting edge software and mutimedia. Stay tuned...
P.S. I am not sure it I posted my Mandrake 10.0 experience. It was a little better than Fedora but it is still based on the Red Hat/rpm model which I am starting to despise. I didn't like the corporate money grab attempts from the website. It wasn't that great that I would pay for support or anything else from them. Overall, I thought Mandrake 10.0 was ugly and confusing. I don't know why it is so popular. So far Suse is winning my 'desktop' but I find it lacking in cutting edge software and mutimedia. Stay tuned...
Participate on our website and join the conversation
This topic is archived. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast.
Responses to this topic
Originally posted by clutch:
Quote:ReFoRMaT, your best bet is to simply stick with a distro, any distro, and get better at it. The more you bounce around, the harder it is to get any real "feel" for that distro or Linux in general.
I completely agree. The time to start experimenting with other distros is after you've used one a good long while and have gotten very familiar with it. That way you have a good sound foundation from which to size up other distros as better or worse for you against what you've learned.
clutch wrote:
Quote:I guess I just got so used to Gentoo that I haven't had a need to try any other distro for personal use.
I was fascinated with Gentoo, and appreciated the whole built-from-scratch-hot-out-of-the-oven-especially-suited-for-your-box approach, but frankly I'm a little too lazy and impatient to learn all that is necessary to be on top of a Gentoo installation.
I started with a 2.4 kernel then updated to a 2.6 kernel and everything ran pretty smoothly. It was just far more work than I am willing to undertake. With Gentoo, I was constantly on line searching for answers to problems I encountered without locating an understandable solution. Many of the "How-tos" on the Gentoo site were (for me) like trying to understand an alien language. Gentoo just wasn't a comfortable fit for me.
I think what attracts me to a distro is how much thought and attention to detail has gone into it. I also like a lean and clean set of apps without all the bloat for the sake of throwing huge numbers of apps at the end user in an attempt to impress them. Even after installing everything from the two CD's, Slackware is lean on apps.
I was really exited about Ubuntu for a while until I ran into things that just weren't thought out. As a for instance, the Ubuntu wireless card configuration utility froze up with me on two different machines with two different cards each and everytime I tried to use it. I like SuSE because it is well thought out, and attention is paid to the details. I have a feeling I'm gonna really like Slackware for my stated reasons, but as for now. SuSE 9.1 has so far been my distro of choice.
clutch wrote:
Quote:Caution: most users to switch to "lean" distros like that rarely go back to ones like RH, SuSE, Mandy, etc. Hope you can adjust...
It's still early, and I may yet run into problems with Slack that turn me against it. So far though, most everything has gone smoothly, and I'm very exited about it. Slackware just feels like a better fit for me than any other distro I've tried after this period of time.
Quote:ReFoRMaT, your best bet is to simply stick with a distro, any distro, and get better at it. The more you bounce around, the harder it is to get any real "feel" for that distro or Linux in general.
I completely agree. The time to start experimenting with other distros is after you've used one a good long while and have gotten very familiar with it. That way you have a good sound foundation from which to size up other distros as better or worse for you against what you've learned.
clutch wrote:
Quote:I guess I just got so used to Gentoo that I haven't had a need to try any other distro for personal use.
I was fascinated with Gentoo, and appreciated the whole built-from-scratch-hot-out-of-the-oven-especially-suited-for-your-box approach, but frankly I'm a little too lazy and impatient to learn all that is necessary to be on top of a Gentoo installation.
I started with a 2.4 kernel then updated to a 2.6 kernel and everything ran pretty smoothly. It was just far more work than I am willing to undertake. With Gentoo, I was constantly on line searching for answers to problems I encountered without locating an understandable solution. Many of the "How-tos" on the Gentoo site were (for me) like trying to understand an alien language. Gentoo just wasn't a comfortable fit for me.
I think what attracts me to a distro is how much thought and attention to detail has gone into it. I also like a lean and clean set of apps without all the bloat for the sake of throwing huge numbers of apps at the end user in an attempt to impress them. Even after installing everything from the two CD's, Slackware is lean on apps.
I was really exited about Ubuntu for a while until I ran into things that just weren't thought out. As a for instance, the Ubuntu wireless card configuration utility froze up with me on two different machines with two different cards each and everytime I tried to use it. I like SuSE because it is well thought out, and attention is paid to the details. I have a feeling I'm gonna really like Slackware for my stated reasons, but as for now. SuSE 9.1 has so far been my distro of choice.
clutch wrote:
Quote:Caution: most users to switch to "lean" distros like that rarely go back to ones like RH, SuSE, Mandy, etc. Hope you can adjust...
It's still early, and I may yet run into problems with Slack that turn me against it. So far though, most everything has gone smoothly, and I'm very exited about it. Slackware just feels like a better fit for me than any other distro I've tried after this period of time.
"I completely agree. The time to start experimenting with other distros is after you've used one a good long while and have gotten very familiar with it. That way you have a good sound foundation from which to size up other distros as better or worse for you against what you've learned."
With all due respect, that is like putting the cart before the horse. Which distro do I use for this 'break in' period? Besides, you guys are losing sight of what I am and what I am trying to do which is: I am a windohs user who is somewhat computer savvy (a smidgeon of DOS, 95 up to XPee but using 2k and now some Linux), I am trying to find a 'non-computer-scientist' distro to take the place of windohs, NOT learn the command line in its entirety (some command line, I find, comes with the territory of ANY operating system so it's a given). That being said, Suse would be a lousy 'break in' OS because it is GUI up the wahzoo (besides, they are showing thier true corporate colours which turns me off). I actually like using the command line once in a while from within the GUI, makes me feel a little 'hackerish'. I think a polished Debian based (reasonable functionality of apt-get and widely supported) distro is my best bet. Decent hardware detection/automatic setup helps too.
With all due respect, that is like putting the cart before the horse. Which distro do I use for this 'break in' period? Besides, you guys are losing sight of what I am and what I am trying to do which is: I am a windohs user who is somewhat computer savvy (a smidgeon of DOS, 95 up to XPee but using 2k and now some Linux), I am trying to find a 'non-computer-scientist' distro to take the place of windohs, NOT learn the command line in its entirety (some command line, I find, comes with the territory of ANY operating system so it's a given). That being said, Suse would be a lousy 'break in' OS because it is GUI up the wahzoo (besides, they are showing thier true corporate colours which turns me off). I actually like using the command line once in a while from within the GUI, makes me feel a little 'hackerish'. I think a polished Debian based (reasonable functionality of apt-get and widely supported) distro is my best bet. Decent hardware detection/automatic setup helps too.
Originally posted by ReFoRMaT:
Quote: With all due respect, that is like putting the cart before the horse. Which distro do I use for this 'break in' period? Besides, you guys are losing sight of what I am and what I am trying to do
ReFoRMaT, with equal respect, this topic is not just about you. There will be plenty of new users who will read this post and may benefit from this discussion. For anyone who is thinking of using Linux I would give them the same advice. Whether or not you feel it may benefit you personally, (which obviously you don't) is of course your choice.
Quote: With all due respect, that is like putting the cart before the horse. Which distro do I use for this 'break in' period? Besides, you guys are losing sight of what I am and what I am trying to do
ReFoRMaT, with equal respect, this topic is not just about you. There will be plenty of new users who will read this post and may benefit from this discussion. For anyone who is thinking of using Linux I would give them the same advice. Whether or not you feel it may benefit you personally, (which obviously you don't) is of course your choice.
"Whether or not you feel it may benefit you personally, (which obviously you don't)"
Dear Mr. D. Dan:
I 'absorb' everything you guys say but what if the first distro I tried was a real stinker? Stick with a stinker? Actually it was, it was Red Hat 9.0 and I hated it. I think it is more like find a 'shoe' that gives you the least blisters and 'run' with it. There, ya see, the best of both worlds. Also, I am quite aware that other noobs will be reading this, that is also part of the exercise, maybe save somebody else the headache of trying practically every distro out there by 'gleaning' distro info from you guys!
Dear Mr. D. Dan:
I 'absorb' everything you guys say but what if the first distro I tried was a real stinker? Stick with a stinker? Actually it was, it was Red Hat 9.0 and I hated it. I think it is more like find a 'shoe' that gives you the least blisters and 'run' with it. There, ya see, the best of both worlds. Also, I am quite aware that other noobs will be reading this, that is also part of the exercise, maybe save somebody else the headache of trying practically every distro out there by 'gleaning' distro info from you guys!
Typically, I recommend RH (OK, Fedora), Mandrake, or SuSE for newbies. After that, I recommend they go to a Debian-based distro for a while. Later, they "grow" into Slack, Gentoo, or something similar. If they are willing to pay for a distro, I recommend Xandros initially, as it is something that you can be happy with for quite a while, especially as a desktop OS.
"Typically, I recommend RH (OK, Fedora), Mandrake, or SuSE for newbies. After that, I recommend they go to a Debian-based distro for a while. Later, they "grow" into Slack, Gentoo, or something similar."
You have pretty much, described to a 'T', the path I am on. Since I am somewhat of a fast learner, maybe I should skip the 'Debian' and go straight for Slack or Gentoo. OK, here is a crucial question: which distro (any 'flavour') has the biggest following/support from IT/developers?
You have pretty much, described to a 'T', the path I am on. Since I am somewhat of a fast learner, maybe I should skip the 'Debian' and go straight for Slack or Gentoo. OK, here is a crucial question: which distro (any 'flavour') has the biggest following/support from IT/developers?
There are two answers:
1. None
2. All
The idea behind RPMs was to make it easier to install things, but then dependency, installer version, and kernel version issues came about. This is why I don't mess with RPM-based distros, even when using "apt4rpm" because there were too few packages made available on those feeds (it might be better now, but too little too late for me).
When you start getting into apps and wanting to use cutting edge stuff, you either need a distro with a package management system that is kept up to date (ala Gentoo, and possibly Slack) or just compile from the latest source on your own.
If you want easy, then stick with the first ones I mentioned and gradually start compiling apps, and later on kernels on your own. The biggest hassle is having the libraries needed up front for whatever app you plan on building. However, some distros make getting the kernel a bit of a pain as well. What would be your best bet, is simply get your nVidia card working in *any* distro, as that process alone will teach you a great deal about getting things to work. Personnally, I would recommend compiling it from source, installing the modules, and configuring X to work with it. If you can manage that, then you should be ready for bigger and better things.
1. None
2. All
The idea behind RPMs was to make it easier to install things, but then dependency, installer version, and kernel version issues came about. This is why I don't mess with RPM-based distros, even when using "apt4rpm" because there were too few packages made available on those feeds (it might be better now, but too little too late for me).
When you start getting into apps and wanting to use cutting edge stuff, you either need a distro with a package management system that is kept up to date (ala Gentoo, and possibly Slack) or just compile from the latest source on your own.
If you want easy, then stick with the first ones I mentioned and gradually start compiling apps, and later on kernels on your own. The biggest hassle is having the libraries needed up front for whatever app you plan on building. However, some distros make getting the kernel a bit of a pain as well. What would be your best bet, is simply get your nVidia card working in *any* distro, as that process alone will teach you a great deal about getting things to work. Personnally, I would recommend compiling it from source, installing the modules, and configuring X to work with it. If you can manage that, then you should be ready for bigger and better things.
I'm baaaaaaaaaaack...I just tried Novell Linux Desktop 9 (NLD9). Hmmm...Suse 9.1 without X.org (NLD9 still uses xfree86 4.something) so of course there is no nvidia driver update (mind you, the 'dummy' driver as they call it, works good if you tweak all the right settings but the 3D is slow even though saX says it is not enabled). Get this, NLD9 has RealPlayer 10 which Suse 9.1 does not (why?), Suse 9.1 firefox only goes up to 0.9.something (with yast conflict reports, 0.8.something safe though), NLD9 firefox is 1.0. I guess they (Novell) think office people don't need blazing graphics to do their work and Suse thinks 'home' users don't need the latest and best open source browser or the most recent Realplayer. I smell a scam to get a user hooked, then fed up enough to run out and buy Suse Pro 9.2 (it sounds like 9.2 has the best of both worlds). NO I DON'T HAVE A DVD BURNER, so please, don't even go 'there'. I know Suse offers the dvd iso but not everybody owns a dvd burner yet. This is why I am getting p*ssed at Suse. They are starting to feel a lot like a software giant that I despise. What is with Red Carpet AND Yast in NLD9? They both work (sort of) but close on you with no warning and for no particular reason (very wierd). Red Carpet would lock up if I tried to download the NLD9 documentation (which apparently I had but was showing as 'available'). Conclusion, Suse 9.1 loves my hardware but has crappy software choices, NLD9 has great software on top of older (buggy) Linux. The last you want is your update/installer tool to be buggy, how can you trust it? NLD9 is supposed to be 'enterprise'! I got so tired of re-writing my mbr, I started to put all the grubs on floppies. I am giving ProMepis another kick at the can, then U-bunty-buntu again. If anybody has used/tried Suse 9.2, please tell me if it has the latest firefox (1.somethin'), X.org.whatever, nvidia support AND RealPlayer 10. Who knows, I just might bust my piggy bank and buy the box set. By the way, saX is the best thing since sliced bread! Every distro should be using it! If Suse 9.2 is everything I think it is and runs smooth, it just might be my replacement for windohs. After all, Linux (whatever distro) just keeps getting better everyday so Suse 9.2 would be just fine for now.
I think my search is over. I believe I said in a previous post I was going to try ProMepis again. Well I did a little comparison 'shopping' based on some info from http://distrowatch.com/ and ProMep had the best of most 'worlds'. Latest browser, absolutely fantastic multimedia support (Mplayer in the Firefox browser, Xine for playing files from disk(s) and RealPlayer just in case of a .r** whatever file). Actually Xine played a 'Real' file that RealPlayer refused to...get a load of that! The only real complaint I have is the old Xfree86 x window server(ver. 4.3 I believe). I have the actual nvidia driver installed but can't get a higher refresh rate of 76Hz @ 1024x768. It should go as high as 87Hz for this monitor (Optiquest Q71, Horiz. 30-70, Vert. 50-160). Regardless, open GL is working and the 'fireworks' screensaver is absolutely amazing (after you enable tons more features than what is 'on' by default). The 'just good enough' video is a small price to pay for an excellent free distro with the latest OpenOffice.org (1.1.3). Another small complaint (aimed at KDE) is the system sounds play like hell, sound from other sources like media players are louder, crisp and clear, thats a kanundrum if I have ever 'heard' one. By the way, be careful if your sound is buggy and you adust setting(s) in 'Sound System', Linux locked up on me everytime (the mouse still moved but NOTHING else would respond). I have onboard ESS Allegro (ESS 1988). I haven't tried the printer yet but I am not sure I care because I can hook it up to the wife's 'winbox' if it won't work. Now maybe if somebody would write a cdrw/udf program, my prayers would be answered. In the mean time, I think I am ready to jump ship, the (pirate skippered) S.S. Micro$cam. Did I mention ProMepis has Deb/apt-get? No? Well it does, hey fellow noobs, stay away from RPM distros if you can, bloody scary, I tell ya!
I found the solution for the 'Sound System' problem. It would appear that some of the settings in ProMepis are not defaulted as they should be (the settings after defaulting are much different than right after a fresh install). All I had to do was click defaults, then apply. I don't friggin' believe it! Didn't even lock up! I think rebooting once in awhile helps too. Linux reminds me of windohs 98, once it gets a hold of memory, it is slow to 'give it up'.
Correction...I updated all INSTALLED packages (after installing glx for the nvidia driver to work) in apt-get before the sound started to co-operate. I have the master at 100%, PCM at about 65%, mono down and muted and both 3D's are off. The startup sound file is choppy but after that the system and media sounds are fine (haven't tried the cdrom audio yet). Tip: restore the Kmix window, click settings, configure Kmix, check restore volumes on login, apply, ok (I couldn't figure out why they were always going back to bad <--duh). I 'scanned' a couple of forums regarding the nvidia lack of refresh rate but it looks like there is no fix right now. 76Hz is better than 70, serious eye strain begins at 72Hz. Even though the odd program likes to quit for no specific reason (pretty rare), I would take this distro (ProMepis) over Suse any day. Fedora and Mandrake went in my garbage can along time ago so I won't even 'go there'!
KsCD is playing Moby/Play/Porcelain as I am typing this. Somebody was thoughtful enough to 'gray out' stop disk before changing drive association. I only had the left channel until I opened Kmix, muted then unmuted CD and boom, both channels. It would appear any Linux needs a little 'push' here and there.
I just joined this site with the understanding that this was an open forum to help people with problems and further understanding and use of Linux as an OS.
On other threads I found people who had problems and were seeking help. I was happy to try to assist them when I felt I could.
I have been running Unix/Linux for 30 years. I am fortunate? to manage a few hundred sites' servers in locations around the world. I run mostly RH as I started with it many hears ago and I guess I just stick with what I know. Heck, I just gave up on WordPerfect a couple of years ago. But, I did not think this site was for blanket condenmation of a particular distro.
In any event, may I suggest that the site would better serve the community without blanket condemnation of a particular distro without providing, to the extent possible, detailed information as to the problem (including snapshots of appropriate configuration files and logs, etc.). If someone has fixed the problem, they can post the solution. If someone has a problem they may ask for help.
I personally run over a dozen computers in my home on a network connected to the world. Some machines are very old (Pentium MMX 200 Mhz) which work very well as cvs repositories and mail servers to 3.6 Ghz P4 with tons of memory. I have RH, Debian, WindowsXPro, VMWARE running all over the place. NOT ONE OF THESE MACHINES came online without my having to configure services and "tweek" settings.
When someone sends me a problem report (in my job) I want something better than "it sucks, is slow and I hate it". I want information and details about the problem. Then, maybe, I can fix it. If I cannot, at least I can pass information to someone else who may.
Wouldn't that be a good way to use this forum?
On other threads I found people who had problems and were seeking help. I was happy to try to assist them when I felt I could.
I have been running Unix/Linux for 30 years. I am fortunate? to manage a few hundred sites' servers in locations around the world. I run mostly RH as I started with it many hears ago and I guess I just stick with what I know. Heck, I just gave up on WordPerfect a couple of years ago. But, I did not think this site was for blanket condenmation of a particular distro.
In any event, may I suggest that the site would better serve the community without blanket condemnation of a particular distro without providing, to the extent possible, detailed information as to the problem (including snapshots of appropriate configuration files and logs, etc.). If someone has fixed the problem, they can post the solution. If someone has a problem they may ask for help.
I personally run over a dozen computers in my home on a network connected to the world. Some machines are very old (Pentium MMX 200 Mhz) which work very well as cvs repositories and mail servers to 3.6 Ghz P4 with tons of memory. I have RH, Debian, WindowsXPro, VMWARE running all over the place. NOT ONE OF THESE MACHINES came online without my having to configure services and "tweek" settings.
When someone sends me a problem report (in my job) I want something better than "it sucks, is slow and I hate it". I want information and details about the problem. Then, maybe, I can fix it. If I cannot, at least I can pass information to someone else who may.
Wouldn't that be a good way to use this forum?
You don't sound much different than a couple of IT people I ran into in a broadband forum. I supplied tons of proof than certain tweaks dramatically improved connection speed in pppoe/win98se and I got the 'you are just a simpleton home user' attitude and was dismissed as a fraud. I don't care how many networks you have serviced or created and what 'letters' you have after your name. RED HAT/FEDORA SUCKS. Maybe redhat was okay years ago for 'servers' and ultra geeks but today people want a distro to replace windohs. NOT A BUGGY PILE OF DOG S**T. Red Hat was clumsy for home pc's to start with, then they (Red Hat Corporation) hung it out in the 'breeze' so to speak, aka the Fedora project to get 'free' labour from the public (upgrading and debugging). MAKING OTHER SO-CALLED NEWBIES AWARE OF ALL THE FACTS MIGHT SAVE THEM SOME HEADACHES AND TIME BY AVOIDING LOUSY DISTROS (Fedora is not the only lousy distro out there). The Debian PROJECT is absolutely fantastic but, in my opion, the distro is 'lacking'. That is why I chose ProMepis and will shout how great is from the roof tops if I have to. I have not spent one minute in a classroom but have mastered all flavours of 'home' windohs (including 2k pro), built and repaired many new and old machines and am now 'moving on' to Linux. I think other 'home users' like to hear the honest truth from somebody more on their level. Maybe Red Hat was the only 'major' distro around back in your day but it is a totally different world now.
Have a nice day!
Have a nice day!
ReFoRMaT you need to calm down. This thread is not your little corner of the universe to rant and rave. BSchindler disagrees with you and has done so in diplomatic way. Please respond to such posts in a like manner from now on.
Nah, I think I will just move on. I feeling a bit of an elitist attitude. I don't need somebody with a yesteryear affection for an obsolete OS trying to tell me it is good. That is like Bill Gates trying tell me windohs is good, safe and reliable. BWAAAAHAHA! I appreciate the fact that most Linux packages were built from voluntary blood, sweat and tears but that doesn't make them ALL good. Last time I looked, Canada and the U.S. were freedom of speech countries. If Linux people are going to be over sensitive, then the 'cream' will never rise to the top where the 'cream' deserves to be.
ReFoRMaT you've gotten by with saying things on this forum that wouldn't be tolerated on other forums. Go over to Linuxquestions or Linuxforums or the Fedora forum and see how far they'll let you go insulting others.
The problem is not with what you say, it's with how you say it. Unfortunately, you expect everone here to read your rants without objection, yet when someone disagrees with you or offers advice in a respectful and diplomatic manner you fly off the handle and start shouting and insulting them in return.
No one here is picking on you. You are simply expected to be courteous toward others just as everyone else is. Have you noticed anyone else here ranting and raving the way you do? I haven't. It's not hard to be civil toward others when responding, it just takes practice.
You make intersting observations about the different distros and Linux in general, and I for one enjoy reading what you have to say when you're not shouting. If you can't respond to other forum members in a more respectful way then maybe it IS best that you move on. I for one would prefer you stay if you can moderate your responses, but that is a decision you alone can make.
The problem is not with what you say, it's with how you say it. Unfortunately, you expect everone here to read your rants without objection, yet when someone disagrees with you or offers advice in a respectful and diplomatic manner you fly off the handle and start shouting and insulting them in return.
No one here is picking on you. You are simply expected to be courteous toward others just as everyone else is. Have you noticed anyone else here ranting and raving the way you do? I haven't. It's not hard to be civil toward others when responding, it just takes practice.
You make intersting observations about the different distros and Linux in general, and I for one enjoy reading what you have to say when you're not shouting. If you can't respond to other forum members in a more respectful way then maybe it IS best that you move on. I for one would prefer you stay if you can moderate your responses, but that is a decision you alone can make.
If you didn't like Gnome, dont bother with Ubuntu.
Asking if you want to install the X Server with a desktop environment is somewhat wrong. There are a few x servers (although most should be now using Xorg).
I prefer Gentoo as well. It's simply untouchable...although - to get it setup initially takes some work, the experience is worth it in the end.
Gentoo has GREAT documentation and the most active user forum out there IMO.
I have Ubuntu setup as my personal server, and I do like it, but my workstation running Gentoo is much better for what I use it for. With Gentoo you can pick defferent build levels of software, much like how changing your debian feeds goes. I prefer the command line for the package management tool, Portage, but it is simple to use. Porthole and Guitoo are available as a GUI frontend for Portage.
If you DO decide to go with Gentoo, be prepared to have at least two days of down time while you complile Xorg and KDE (openoffice is a long one as well). I printed out the manual as well. Maybe toss out a pdf of the whole manual (installing gentoo) and take it to a Kinko's or something...probablly wont cost more than $5. It's worth it. Unless of course, you have another PC that is attached to the internet that you could reference.
I am not a fan of Red Hat either...just a little to much in there...I'm sure its great once you have spent time with it, but - I used 7.2, 7.3, 9.0 and FC2 - wasnt a fan of any of them.
Asking if you want to install the X Server with a desktop environment is somewhat wrong. There are a few x servers (although most should be now using Xorg).
I prefer Gentoo as well. It's simply untouchable...although - to get it setup initially takes some work, the experience is worth it in the end.
Gentoo has GREAT documentation and the most active user forum out there IMO.
I have Ubuntu setup as my personal server, and I do like it, but my workstation running Gentoo is much better for what I use it for. With Gentoo you can pick defferent build levels of software, much like how changing your debian feeds goes. I prefer the command line for the package management tool, Portage, but it is simple to use. Porthole and Guitoo are available as a GUI frontend for Portage.
If you DO decide to go with Gentoo, be prepared to have at least two days of down time while you complile Xorg and KDE (openoffice is a long one as well). I printed out the manual as well. Maybe toss out a pdf of the whole manual (installing gentoo) and take it to a Kinko's or something...probablly wont cost more than $5. It's worth it. Unless of course, you have another PC that is attached to the internet that you could reference.
I am not a fan of Red Hat either...just a little to much in there...I'm sure its great once you have spent time with it, but - I used 7.2, 7.3, 9.0 and FC2 - wasnt a fan of any of them.
